A non-Holy Trinity

(Content Warnings)

This episode touches on themes of homosexuality, brief mention of sexual assault, and religious trauma. These themes might be difficult for some listeners to hear. Please be advised. 

(Description)

This episode was actually the first episode ever recorded for ReligiosiTea! Even before the introduction. This episode is also one of probably a few episodes that will eventually be recorded in a natural/organic setting rather than having a quiet studio-like space. This conversation took place around a kitchen table! This will not be the case for all episodes, but is part of the organic nature of the show. 

In this conversation, I had the opportunity to speak to my partner, Mark, and my cousin, Amberly about their different experiences of Catholicism. Because this conversation took part with 3 people, we formed a trinity of sorts to discuss themes of Catholicism through different and shared experiences with the faith (Hence the episode title A non-Holy Trinity). Mark grew up in the Philippines and Amberly grew up in Mexican Catholicism as practiced in a city on the US-Mexico border. I asked each of them to share their experiences with faith both as a personal experience and as a cultural construct in which they were raised. 

We dive into conversations about folklore, traditions, and beliefs between these two different cultures. We then transition into a conversation about each of their religious trajectories, whether or not they still identify with that faith, what their spirituality looks like now, and how they feel about their faith. Finally, we move into a discussion about how they each consider faith or spirituality in relation to their health, especially their mental health. 

(Content Caveat)

The conversations here are exploratory on my part. I didn't have an opportunity to do research on these topics aside from my own personal knowledge, so the ideas presented here are based purely on lay understandings of the religious and cultural topics discussed. We are not using this space to present purely accurate information, but rather to discuss and engage with personal knowledges around these topics. If there is something you feel needs to be corrected or addressed in the content shared, feel free to "Spill Your Tea" in the communications link above. 

Follow me on Instagram and Threads: @ReligiosiTea

You can use the link at the top of the show notes or email me at religiositea@gmail.com to share your stories, thoughts, insights, reactions, and much more! I'm waiting for you to spill your ReligiosiTea!

Transcript

Adren: 0:00

We're spilling tea on religion and health. Where intersections of faith and healing combine. On Religiosity. As this podcast discusses religious beliefs, religious experiences, personal testimonies, and mental and physical health, some of the content may be uncomfortable or triggering for some listeners. Content warnings will be provided in the description of each episode. Any personal journeys discussed on this podcast do not constitute health, medical, or religious advice. We are simply trying to capture the lived experiences of real people who would like to share their own stories about religion and or health.

Amberly: 0:58

Hi, my name's Amberly. I'm his cousin. I'm 27. I'm active military and I've lived in Japan and Spain and I'm also gay. Period.

Mark: 1:14

I'm Mark. I'm Adren's partner. I'm from the Philippines and currently I'm here in the US for a cultural exchange as a teacher. I'm a Roman Catholic, and I'm gay. Period.

Adren: 1:33

Period. Alright, so, both of you grew up Catholic, one of you grew up Mexican Catholic, and one of you grew up Catholic in the Philippines. I'll let the listeners guess which is which, but the results may shock you. Can you tell me a little bit about your experiences growing up in the Catholic faith?

Amberly: 2:02

I guess for me, growing up Catholic, it was fun because we used to go to, like, guermeses and, like, our grandma. We used to have, like, dances for the originary, and I would go to church with them and stuff like that. So from what I remember, it was fun. There wasn't a lot of, like, Catholicism, I guess, being learned because I was so small. And at some point, I guess, after my parents separated, I started going to Christian church, and that's when I definitely ruled out a religion, per se. I just wanted to follow my own path, I guess you could say.

Mark: 2:47

Me, in the Philippines, my grandmother every Sunday she brings me to the church to hear Mass and we sit in like in the first in front that's every Sunday like in the afternoon and then in October we pray the rosary every night

Unknown: 3:12

not

Mark: 3:13

every year but yeah I can remember that um yeah we pray the rosary and my first grade teacher she always read us a rebel story every friday that's how i know jesus or my religion i guess

Adren: 3:37

nice well i appreciate you both sharing a little bit more about your history can you tell me From your perceptions, what kind of the core beliefs are around Catholicism or like the major practices that kind of any Catholic would be able to recognize and do? I

Amberly: 4:00

guess definitely going to church and like growing up in a Mexican household is like you pray to the saints, you do the whole Matachines every December, you know that, and then the summer Mass. And, you know, you lay the little kids to rest and you do everything of that sort. And then you have your Ash Wednesday and you do all that. So I did grow up doing all of that. And, yeah, I guess that's something that my fellow Hispanics would probably know something about here being from El Paso.

Mark: 4:38

Yeah, and the Philippines also will celebrate the Holy Week, the Semana Santa. and then what else we are doing like the seven the sacraments we have to do first communion and everything and we have to learn the the prayers like our father in in in my language and we live by the ten commandments like we memorize it and then we do confessions yeah

Amberly: 5:13

same thing

Adren: 5:16

i've heard from other catholic people that i know that it's very similar like she feels that wherever she goes in the world if she can find a catholic church she'll know more or less what the structure of the service is going to be like and that she can find a mass anywhere do you guys think you relate to that

Mark: 5:41

yeah because like for roman catholic they have the liturgy like they have the parts and it's all the same it just differs with language that's what i know

Amberly: 5:57

um i don't know for me i guess like i really fell off with religion I guess when I joined the Navy almost eight years ago. So my first duty station was Japan and there's not many Catholics over there and if you do there is a Christian church that happens to be like maybe in Tokyo or like rare like parts of Japan but I mean their main religion is Buddhism and stuff like that so if you happen to go to the one on base They rarely offer Catholic services. It's more so Christian and stuff like that, but I don't know. I guess my experience was different because every December when I came home, I always went to my grandma's and we did all that, celebrating the Virgin Mary and stuff. So I guess it's just different everywhere.

Adren: 6:51

And can you tell me... In your own interpretation, what are the major moral lessons that you take from Catholicism?

Mark: 7:02

For me, it's just the golden rule or something. Like, do unto others what you want others to do unto you. And then...

Unknown: 7:23

Love thy neighbors. Let's live that. For me, that's

Amberly: 7:30

it. I guess for me, like, a lot through high school, I followed a similar quote that's like, and always, like, I would always think about that throughout high school or, like, difficult situations or, like, deployments and stuff. So I guess that's something I took from Catholicism and Every time I go somewhere, I'm on the plane or traveling or something, I always hold like a St. Judas necklace. And I also always carry a little Virgin Mary with the prayer on it for travel. So something that I still hold on to.

Adren: 8:09

Can you translate the quote that you said?

Amberly: 8:12

If God is with me, who is against me?

Adren: 8:18

All right. And... who are like the major players or key figures in this faith i

Amberly: 8:26

want to say it just depends who you decide not like not to worship but i mean catholicism is a lot like the saints in virgin mary and of course there is god but i know everybody has their specific saints that they pray to depending on what you expect out of it

Adren: 8:47

What's the question? Okay. Who are the major players or key figures in this religion?

Mark: 8:53

In this religion? Yeah, for Catholicism, it's Jesus. And the Philippines, we're very into saints. Like, every town, we have specific saints that we are, how to say, that we worship or something. But for my town, we do the Immaculate Conception. And then we worship Mary and other saints and also angels.

Adren: 9:26

So speaking about saints, something that we have in Mexican folklore that I'm actually not sure if it's related to Catholicism or if it comes from the folk indigenous religions, but like Santa Muerte and Santeria, is that part of Catholicism or is that something that was created by the Mexican people?

Amberly: 9:47

Well, I've had family members and I've also had friends that either they turned their faith to La Santa Muerte, which I grew up knowing as, I mean, you're trading your soul with the Grim Reaper itself. And you're going to do and obey as it pleases and it gives you everything that you want in life.

Adren: 10:17

if that figure is part of Catholicism or not, because I actually don't know.

Amberly: 10:22

I don't think it's part of Catholicism, but I do know some people, like Santeria, I've also known it as dark Catholicism, where it's like they pray to the saints differently. They pray to them differently so they can get things in return, either in a malicious way or a very greedy way. So... it could intertwine because they can use the same saints just pray to it differently and you know like attach negative energy and stuff like that so i've always known not to do that basically i guess it's witchcraft whatever you don't have

Adren: 11:07

santa muerte in the philippines what is that the saint of death no okay so for the listeners that's just me clarifying something that i was confused on growing up mexican-american and not catholic like i was like something with like the saint is it a catholic saint or

Amberly: 11:28

you know Tia Alfonso, he was a believer of La Santa Muerte. And

Adren: 11:34

he lived a fabulous life.

Amberly: 11:36

And he lived a fabulous life, guys. He won the lottery. He would go to the casino on a full moon, on a full blood moon every time and win thousands of dollars. And he would come back. I remember he had a skull in his dresser, like a human skull on his dresser, and it had a black candle lit on it. So he would light it, leave it on, go to the casino, come back, give apples, oranges, leave like a hundred dollar bill on it. And that man lived fabulous in his years. So to be a believer, I've seen things. So anything is possible.

Adren: 12:12

So in the Philippines, do they combine Catholicism with any of the prior folk religions that existed before colonization? Or do you think it's like a pretty pure interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church?

Mark: 12:27

I think growing up, it's just Roman Catholicism because we're colonized for 300 plus years by Spain. Our religion before it's gone. Yeah. That's what I know, that my ancestors will worship the nature, like the sun, mountains, and you know.

Adren: 13:02

The moment of silence to respect the colonization that happened across the world from Spain. Mm-hmm. so continuing on about the key players and major figures do you have a favorite saint or a favorite figure me

Mark: 13:25

when i was still like four years old like i i was in the crib my grandmother will leave me uh a santo nino it's like i don't know how to in the philippines were like in cebu specifically in my in my island we People are very devoted to Santo Niño. It's the baby Jesus. So my grandmother will leave me a Santo Niño figurine in my crib and she will leave me alone in the house. So I think that's...

Adren: 14:04

Your favorite?

Mark: 14:05

Yeah, and also when I was in elementary, I can remember that I asked my aunt to buy me a crucifix, like Jesus and the cross. I don't know why. I like that.

Adren: 14:21

Maybe because you grew up Catholic?

Unknown: 14:23

Yeah.

Amberly: 14:30

I guess for me it's always been like the basic, like the Virgin Mary. Like, I grew up around her, I've had like murals are her i've had everything from her you know she's like one of the purest forms of saints and stuff and she is like the main saint that is celebrated throughout mexico other than yeah other than san culas but we all know san culas is a different story too but

Adren: 15:01

we don't know who's san culas That's Judas, right?

Amberly: 15:06

Yes, he is actually the...

Mark: 15:08

The one who betrayed Jesus?

Amberly: 15:10

He's a saint of lost causes. So a lot of people that are involved criminally and have bad decisions for life or feel lost in life, they usually pray to the saint of lost causes.

Adren: 15:27

St. Jude's Medical Center.

Amberly: 15:29

The lost cause.

Adren: 15:31

For the children with cancer?

Amberly: 15:33

Yeah. so

Adren: 15:35

it's different yeah okay and

Amberly: 15:38

they also do um they do have another it's not really an acclaimed saint but in Mexico it's um Malverde and he is not an official saint but people usually pray for him too for money so that's another big saint that they celebrate over there as well

Adren: 15:57

and what's the difference between the Virgin Mary and La Virgen de Guadalupe

Amberly: 16:03

um I guess Americans that didn't grow up Mexican, I guess. We have a whole celebration at our grandma's house. We had the Matachines dance for her. We fed them. We did the lighting. We did everything towards her. So I feel like it's a bigger worship for her than it would be as an American Catholic compared to a Mexican Catholic.

Mark: 16:34

As what I've known, it's just the same Virgin. It's one of her apparitions.

Adren: 16:40

Yeah. Yeah. So for those who don't know, La Virgen de Guadalupe, or the Virgin of Guadalupe, is an apparition of the Virgin Mary on the shirt of a farmer in central Mexico. And allegedly, there's a museum where they still have that shirt on display. So you can go, they have a whole cathedral in dedication to her. And it was one of the major iconographic moments that really solidified the Catholic faith in Mexico. It's like a very important myth of the conversion of the Mexican people into Catholicism. And that also plays into the Matachines, which I don't know... I don't know what the translation of Matachines is, but they're... performers who perform around specific holidays particularly in December related to the Virgin Mary and the conversion of Mexico so they dress in indigenous costume and they dance and celebrate and pray to the Virgin Mary in celebration of the Catholicization of Mexico and of the indigenous

Amberly: 17:55

people they're like her dancers come and like spread love and devotion and Through dance.

Unknown: 18:02

Right.

Amberly: 18:02

To show. For her I guess. Yeah.

Unknown: 18:06

Yeah.

Amberly: 18:07

But. Back to what you're saying about like the Mexican farmer. And all that. Our nana actually one time. She used to babysit me when I was little. But. It's weird that there's apparitions like that. Because there's a lot of that in Mexico. Like people find it in like. food they find it and stuff like that i feel like that's why it's the main thing that shows up would be a virgin mary on a tortilla on like anything that shows up but my grandma did happen to have one show up on a bath towel that she had by juarez and she kept it for many many years on display i don't know if you remember that but she kept it in the guest bathroom in the middle it was um maroon and like cream color and she would always go over and show everybody like look this is the path and there's the virgin mary

Adren: 18:54

next time you go over because you'll probably go there before me send me a picture yes if you can find

Unknown: 18:59

it yeah

Adren: 19:10

so Of all the stories that you've heard growing up or reading the Bible or attending services, is there any that you would say is your favorite?

Mark: 19:25

Well, my favorite Bible story is the prodigal son. It's about two brothers. The other one... Asked the dad their dad to that he wanted his part of the land and everything he shared And then after that the dad gave it to him and he sold his share and then he left the family or the place and Like go out with his friends spend the money with you know, his vices and everything and then His money ran out so he's looking for a job and the only job he could find is to be like a farm boy or something like feeding the pigs and he was so hungry so he ate the food of the pig and then he realized that in his dad's house they have like food and everything so he went back and then one of the servants saw him like far away go go into the place and the servant told that the father and then the father said like oh my my son is coming home and like kill or like kill the cattle for him like we'll have a feast because my because my son is back and then the other brother went like from the fields he came home and asked the servants why are we having a feast and then the servant said like oh your brother is back and then it's like the the other brother is like disappointed or something like a bad feeling like he's telling his dad like why are you having feast like he is the one who left us he's the one who sold everything and then the dad said like just be happy because your brother is back or something like that yeah that's a beautiful

Adren: 21:32

story How does that story make you feel? Like...

Mark: 21:39

Sometimes I feel... Like, for reflection, sometimes I feel like I'm the... The other son, like, who sold everything and then got rid of his vices and went back. And sometimes I feel like I'm the other brother, too. Like, I compare myself to others. Like, I'm doing good. Why is that? Others seem to think that. So, yeah.

Amberly: 22:18

I remember my dad sat me down one time and said if I read the Bible all the way to the end, that my eyes were going to melt out of my eye, out of my socket. And I always remember that with a grain of salt.

Adren: 22:40

So you both have had different reactions as adults to growing up Catholic. One of you doesn't really feel very religious anymore. And one of you tried to become a priest. And also maybe isn't the most devout believer now, but is still quite faithful. to the Catholic religion. So who wants to share first, the one who left or the one who stayed?

Amberly: 23:17

The one who stayed first.

Adren: 23:21

Okay, so where do I start? Can you tell us about your journey through the discernment program and then what followed after as far as your faith? Yeah.

Mark: 23:36

Well, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a priest because I don't know. And then after college, so I become a teacher. And then after college, I still like want to go back to that like younger self's dream to become a priest. So I applied to become a priest. And then I get into a discernment program.

Adren: 24:06

what is the discernment program

Mark: 24:10

it's somehow like it's not seminary yet it's a pre-seminary like you get there you see the life of a seminarian like to become a priest to be part of a congregation and then yeah you live like you're in a seminary like you do you have routine you have um schedule you go to school to study like subjects like about theology about about the religion about self like it's like courses about religion like related to catholicism and just that and you'll meet people like every week we have like seminars we have um guests guest speakers from the like priests or like people from the religion like from the congregation and also that we have like spiritual director that will like we have to like we have made consultation like meetings every month or every week i don't know i forget and then you'll talk about like your your process like virtuality, your faith, and your vocation in general.

Adren: 25:38

So what was your overall experience going through that process?

Mark: 25:45

Well, it was supposed to be like 10 months, like a one school year, but I just I ended my journey after the first semester because after like five months the last part we had a retreat for five days like it's like a silent retreat then I decided not to continue why? because I don't see myself like in that congregation per se or like or I don't see myself in that congregation like joining them and I wanted to like join the other like congregation like I don't know it's not a congregation but it's another parish I don't know how to explain because like in Catholicism like for priests we have the congregations like those dominicans like franciscans they are called congregation and then we have also like priests who are in charge of a parish like for a church it's called it's diocese like a diocese so it's diocesan so i was planning like after that um discernment program i was planning to to join the diocese but I did not.

Adren: 27:23

And how do you feel about your faith now? Well, growing up, I was for 27,

Mark: 27:29

I don't know how, I forgot my age when I first came here in the US, but let's say 27 years in the Philippines, I am surrounded by, with Roman Catholicism. So all my life I've been exposed to that religion. So, I was very faithful devoted like I go to church regularly but now in the US like I don't drive so I can't go to church regularly I don't want to spend money for uber so I don't and it was pandemic when I came here so church churches was not open so I don't go to church now that much

Adren: 28:16

like yeah And how do you feel about that?

Mark: 28:24

Actually, I don't

Adren: 28:25

feel anything. Like,

Mark: 28:28

I feel okay with it not going.

Adren: 28:32

But do you still, like...

Mark: 28:34

But I still, like, do believe in God. I still do believe in Jesus. I still feel

Unknown: 28:40

like I'm the favorite child of God. Okay.

Adren: 28:47

On that note, you decided as an adult, Amberlee, that you no longer wanted to participate, particularly in the Catholic faith. What did that look like

Unknown: 29:00

for you?

Amberly: 29:06

I guess it was a lot of questioning myself and situations. I went through a rough adolescent years with my family, as you know. And I saw my brother struggling a lot and me leaving to the Navy irrationally. I started believing less and less because I went from terrible situations to sexual assault and everything. And I'm like, if I'm so into my faith, why does... why do these things keep happening you know and that's stuff like that like makes you question your faith at least for me is where i was like i need to focus on my energy and attract better people better situations like manifest more things and i guess that's how i went into a more spiritual spiritual healing journey for myself per se of course i still believe uh If people say, like, Dios te bendiga, I'll be like, likewise and stuff like that. I still say that. I still bless my mom every time I leave the house. I still have little things that I still take from growing up Catholic into my adulthood. But I don't really lean into going to churches and stuff like that. Because from my experience, I've seen people that are way too into their religion are like some of the worst people you'll ever meet. they're just a hit or miss but that's kind of like what made me not not believe in my faith but made me question a lot of things as an adult where i was like why do these why do good things happen to bad people if god loves you so much and he tells you to go this path and then it ends up like fucking you over in the end it's just i don't know I guess throughout the years I was just like it just happened too much obviously in the military you see a lot of crazy stuff happening and going on so little by little I just you know went a different path

Adren: 31:19

so I know that you still engage in some very specific spiritual practices can you talk about what those are and what they look like

Amberly: 31:32

um I do believe in um Like limpia, I usually do them for my cousin when I come into town. My mom does them for me. I do them for friends overseas. I do everything of that. I do believe in cleansing your energy. I also have a pile of rocks or crystals that people say that I do charge. I sage every time I move. I sage every time I do anything that's going to majorly affect my life. I do get my tarot cards read. I'm a very open person. I always believe in karma. I believe in the universe. i believe in uh like the higher power and all that so

Adren: 32:16

and for those of you who don't know olympia is like a latino folk practice of cleansing the energy and it looks different in a lot of different families or cultures or regions so in our family we typically use eggs and that are room temperature and you pass it over someone's energy field and pray over them and it's supposed to remove bad energies and rebalance you and then you crack the egg in water and it's a form of divination where you look into the water and see what the egg looks like and try and figure out what energies are working in your life and then you Put spices in there, mix it up, and get rid of it. You can take it to a crossroads. If you want to get really spiritual, bury it in the earth, but we just flush it.

Amberly: 33:07

Yeah. So typically it depends on the type of reading the egg gives you. Usually if you have major spikes, it means that somebody is very envious of you around you and is wishing bad upon you. So when you do that, you're supposed to sleep with it under your bed and then... The next day you conceal it with chili powder, paprika, vinegar, everything. And then you were to dispose of it in whichever way you want to, preferably the toilet. And then if you see any like brown spots or dark spots or like really, really dark red spots, it means that someone is probably doing brujería on you or you're having health issues. And with that, you want to immediately conceal it and flush it on the toilet. So... It just depends on, like, I guess what region your family is from in Mexico or, like, what you guys practice. But that's how I grew up, and that's how my family does it to each other.

Adren: 34:03

Nice. So have either of you done a lot of religious exploration into other, like, specific denominations or faiths?

Amberly: 34:18

Um... I know being stationed in Japan my first couple years, I really wasn't... looking for another religion but I did love learning about different religions because El Paso was very small when I left and now it's a growing city but when I went to the navy I was in cultural shock guys in Chicago I had never I didn't even know what monk people were I did not know Laos people I did not know I didn't really know about Filipinos I didn't know a lot about different like ethnicities because I was we're so secluded El Paso is so small we do have Fort Bliss but it's just so small it's just mainly Hispanic people around you so I did love hearing about their stories and like their practices and their religions and like I would always ask questions like oh how do you feel about this and this what are you guys not supposed to do so I did like um I guess researching people and the religion

Adren: 35:20

And that is some religiosity.

Amberly: 35:23

Period.

Adren: 35:25

What about you, Mark?

Mark: 35:27

Me? When I was in college, I tried to attend one of my friends' Christian service, and I did not like it. Just that once. And then the rest, I, no.

Adren: 35:46

And what did you not like about it? Because,

Mark: 35:49

like, they sing, like, their worship is more on singing, and they're loud, and, like, everyone's crying. Like, I did not like it.

Adren: 36:03

Like,

Mark: 36:03

I don't know. Why are you

Adren: 36:04

crying? So you prefer, like, joint prayer and chanting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for sharing about your religious history. We're going to change gears now.

Unknown: 36:21

Okay. Bring it on, sister. Just kidding.

Adren: 36:40

So, how do you think Catholicism growing up influenced... your mental health.

Mark: 36:51

So knowing the 10 commandments, like you should obey your parents. So I grew up with my grandmother. So she's very strict and I cannot like talk back to her. And as a kid, like, I think as I grow up that's why I think I'm like silent like shy because I don't like talk back so I because I don't grow up like that and like we like culture in general in the Philippines like we do we look up to like seniors like seniority we have seniority in the Philippines like if that person is higher rank than you or like older than you, you have to pay respect in general. But I think for me, religion helps me with my mental health also, like knowing that there's God looking upon you, like keeping you safe. Somehow as a kid, it makes me like more like safer comfortable

Amberly: 38:16

um I guess for me um ever since I was a teenager I was very rebellious and I struggled a lot with depression and stuff like that and I was really pressured to be like the perfect daughter I got good grades and I did everything I was supposed to, but like Mark had said, I was always following the Ten Commandments, but it also made me a very, very sneaky teenager. So I guess my mental health really declined at some point because I was really questioning myself. And of course, now I am a grown woman in my late 20s, and I am a lesbian. and um for so many years i had to conceal that feeling that i had inside of me because you know you always have to listen to your parents like they tell you that in church and they always you have to do the ten commandments you're not gonna go to heaven like you will go to hell and i was so so so scared of it until like i got so fed up of it and i'm like i just can't i can't do this anymore but it got really bad at some point i was like trying to uh you know go into a different universe a couple times as a teenager. But yeah, I guess it really affected my mental health as in I need to be perfect. I can't make my parents look bad. I can't represent my parents in a bad way because I'm gay or because I want to get tattoos and piercings. It was a mental struggle against my liberating thoughts that I wanted to have and I wanted to feel free. So concealing that for so many years and then my outing was to go to the Navy and I was able to do all these things. So I guess, yeah, that was very hard.

Adren: 40:13

So kind of what I'm hearing is related to this concept that I've heard of growing up from people who are Catholic about Catholic guilt. Can you talk about that?

Amberly: 40:29

I don't even see it as Catholic guilt. It's like Catholic, um... Like... Like Catholic, uh... What do you say it? Like when you're... When you want to, like, force somebody.

Unknown: 40:43

Coercion?

Amberly: 40:44

Yes. It's like... You're raised on this. It's kind of like you're raised on this so young. You have no idea, like, what is going on. And it's like... Oh, shit. Like, I have to do this because that's everything I've known. Like... What if I turn away from my religion? Like, am I going to go to hell? Like, what's going to happen to me? So it's very, like, I guess guilt, but it's also, like, coercion where they're like, you better do this shit now or we made this on you as a family, which has happened to me, but whatever. I

Adren: 41:17

claim you because of it.

Amberly: 41:19

I know.

Adren: 41:28

So how would each of you define well-being? It's

Mark: 41:34

like being healthy, like physically, mentally also, and maybe spiritually. What about

Amberly: 41:45

you? Yeah, I think it's like for your well-being is like being, learning how to be kind and healthy to yourself, like spiritually, mentally, physically, learning, Having those attributes to pass down to... Friends that may need it... For their well-being... Like caring for people genuinely... And... Yeah... I guess that's... What I think of well-being...

Adren: 42:12

I think it's interesting that... Mark said well-being last... And you... Or not well-being... Spiritual... Like spirituality last... And you said it first...

Amberly: 42:22

It's because your energy attracts what... You want around yourself... Because for many... years i attracted very negative people around my life and i was drinking i was like going out every night i was doing everything and it was like very close-minded people that just had one thing was to get drunk and like go out and have fun whatever but when you attract good energy around you like you see a shift in your well-being like your personality your Your face even, like, everything. You're, like, detoxing. So, I feel like that's why spirituality is really big for me. It was a turning point.

Adren: 43:06

Yeah. That's so interesting. So, what does the term spiritual health mean for you?

Amberly: 43:17

Spiritual health for me... I guess it just means, like, I have to... I'm a very overwhelmed person and I get annoyed very quickly. So sometimes I have to step back and I go MIA on people and I have to really process what has gone on and what I can do to improve and how I want it to look like in the future. So I usually like not meditate, but I'll do things on my own where I can like refocus my energy into something that I want to pour it into. So for me, it's like you have to have your spiritual health at 100% for you to truly focus on what you want to get out of life in that moment and in the future. I

Unknown: 44:11

don't know.

Adren: 44:13

You don't know? I mean, if you don't believe in spiritual health, you can say that too. This is a safe space. You can say that it's some hokey pokey BS.

Amberly: 44:22

Hokey pokey.

Adren: 44:25

point like if you want to have like spiritual health can mean a lot of things it can mean like how spirituality comes into your health and well-being it could mean how to have a healthy relationship with spirituality and spiritual practices it could mean how spirituality relates to your mental health how it contributes to the physical choices that you make it can mean anything you want it to mean

Unknown: 44:52

but what does it mean to you i can't explain like spiritual help for me is that

Mark: 45:05

you know um growing up is that i feel like within the if i don't go to church i feel like for the for the next week for like sunday is the church and then for monday like i feel like less energy or something like i think that's the um religious goal i guess also too like but if i go to church um like for the next week i feel like energized like i feel like i fulfilled something like i did something good but now really like if i just pray on my own like in the morning or before going to bed and sometimes like random things like on my way going to work or going to home like I have like silent moments with myself and I just like think and like somehow talk to God and somehow it's like kind of relieving my stress and

Adren: 46:13

so you both mentioned similar concepts of like centering yourself rebalancing your energy refocusing reconnecting are there any specific practices within your different spiritual practices now so for you maybe still within Catholicism for you within your different spiritual things that you do. Is there any one specific thing that you think helps you the most with your mental health or with your emotional regulation? I

Amberly: 46:55

think... Like for me, I like how I say I have to back up and like recenter myself. It's like no shade to any of my friends, but I really like block people out either for weeks and people know like I'm either depressed or something, but I have to do it because I have very toxic thoughts. And I don't want to reflect that on anybody else's energy. So I'm like, this is what I need to do. So I isolate myself and either like I take long baths every night for weeks or like I'll read. I'll get hooked on like on documentaries that like could teach me something. I go to the gym. What else? I like to bake a lot. So I like stress bake. And I do like a lot of like little research on like the moon and my horoscope and stuff. So, like, you know, Mercury is in Gatorade. I know I'm going to act up, so...

Adren: 47:52

Mercury's in retrograde right now, so...

Amberly: 47:54

Oh, no.

Adren: 47:56

But, like, I'm hearing a lot of just secular things, which is fine. Like, that's valid. But I'm wondering if there's any spiritual thing that you do, whether it's meditation, prayer, crystal healing.

Amberly: 48:08

Oh, I definitely use my crystals, and I'll definitely cleanse, because... Like I'll feel like my body tense up where I'm like so like overwhelmed with like energy that I'm like, I need to cleanse myself. So I would like light up some sage or palo santo and just sit in my living room and just like inhale it and really try and clear my thoughts where I'm like, okay, this is what I need to do next to make myself feel re-energized again.

Adren: 48:37

Can you describe what that looks like as a process? Like step one, step two. I

Amberly: 48:45

guess like my step one is me recognizing that I'm getting overwhelmed before I explode. and then my step two is like okay my course of action of course i'm in the military so i have to find energy and time for me to do this so usually i'll do it like on a weekend or like on a sunday or something and i'll just like sit there in silence and like i light up a candle i light up the pano santo or something and i really like to journal and i'll journal my thoughts and i'll journal like what my next course of actions are to improve on it and i'll usually like i said i'll go mi on everybody i'll be like oh it's like i'm in a haze i wake up a week later and i'm like calling my mom or my brother and i'm like hey how are you guys been like you haven't called us for like 14 days now like what's going on but i can't i can't express to them how like how I have been feeling and stuff like that, because I don't want to transfer that energy to them.

Mark: 49:51

Yeah, I learned this in the discernment program. Just be aware of your surroundings. At the end of the day, do reflections. What are five things that happen to the like i feel good about myself or like that and then also as a catholic like finding the finding god in all things that's what i've learned like even like oh the the cool wind or like i like the sun brights like it's it's beautiful so like i i try to remember those things like in a day and What else? Or sometimes I feel like overwhelmed, feeling like a positive feeling, like coming here in the US, like sometimes like in my third year, I still can't believe that I'm in the US. Like those feelings of like being grateful or something, it kind of like helped me like overcome stress or like, problems

Adren: 51:10

so is there any advice that you have for anyone who might want to do the practices that you mentioned so like taking space to cleanse or taking space to find god do you have any advice for somebody who might want to do that

Amberly: 51:29

i guess like like being spiritual like sometimes i I will still pray and stuff like that, but you do what makes you feel good and what you think will heal you at the moment. Like spirituality really heals me at the moment, makes me refocus myself. So you would really need to be open-minded on certain things that you need to do. Like, I feel like if you really want to do something, you have to believe in it because then it will feed back to you. like how we say like may the universe continue to bless you guys and like protect you and stuff like that you have to believe like in higher power and all that that all reflects on your energy what you put out is what you're gonna get in return so just do research i guess and see if it's for you and if it's not just try again try another thing that might help you

Mark: 52:32

For me, it's just like, find a quiet place for yourself, like, where you feel calm. Then try to, like, for me, just find the, like, for a day, like, within a day, like, find things that you feel good about yourself, you feel good about, like, everything, like, at least five things for that day. And then try to, like, just be grateful.

Unknown: 53:06

Yeah.

Adren: 53:08

All right. So we're kind of getting to our final segment. Do you have any advice for anyone or any information for anyone that wants to practice what you practice? So for you, your variety of like know those spiritual beliefs or for you somebody who wants to come into the catholic faith

Amberly: 53:38

i can't really explain it how i came up on like i watched a lot of youtube and i did a lot of um i read books or like i started i've always been been attached to crystal since i was a little girl my my dad used to get him for me from the truck stops because he was a truck driver so i feel like It was just natural to me to be in spiritual, but definitely like do your research, like books or look up YouTubers and like try and talk to people who practice spirituality and like, you know, just get a, it's okay to try something new out. It doesn't mean it's like permanent. So if you don't like it or you feel like you're betraying your religion, you're not, you're your own person and you're entitled to do whatever you want to. do with your life that makes you feel good. So.

Mark: 54:34

Me as a Catholic, but now not practicing it that much. Like, I don't have any advice. I just have to like, just be kind to other people. Like that's,

Unknown: 54:47

that's as long

Mark: 54:48

as you're not doing harm and like, I don't know, just be kind like this.

Adren: 54:56

Okay. Kind of a similar question, but for anybody listening out there, do you have any words of wisdom or something that you've taken from your own religions or spiritual practices that can benefit others?

Amberly: 55:17

I guess don't let anybody tell you that you can't do it. Don't feel guilty for doing something that makes you happy. And don't care what other people think. Because you're your own personality. You're your own mind. And whatever you think is going to be what you think. And it's if you want to share it to other people, if you want to let them in. But just be your own person. And like Mark said, be kind. Be respectful of others. You need to know that there's many other practices out there.

Mark: 55:55

words of wisdom like I don't know specifically um which Bible verse it is but it something know somewhere in the Old Testament like you're wonderfully made so that's really um I kept like I always remember that I am wonderfully made so whatever like struggles you are going through right now, just remember that you are made wonderfully. And yeah, just be kind.

Adren: 56:34

Nice. So do you have any cautionary tales or things that someone should consider if they want to engage in these spiritual practices?

Amberly: 56:47

Don't get bamboozled, guys. Don't end up in a cult.

Unknown: 56:51

research

Amberly: 56:54

do what you need to do make good friends have resources because people are malicious and evil out there man i don't know yeah you gotta be careful with whatever you do so

Unknown: 57:07

for me

Mark: 57:16

just do what works for you like

Unknown: 57:21

I

Adren: 57:24

don't know alright I think we've spilled the tea I want to thank you for being on this podcast and I want to thank the listeners you've made it this far I hope to see you around in the future follow my insta at religiosity and you can also follow me on threads be it

Amberly: 57:50

Period.

Unknown: 57:53

Bye. Bye. Bye.